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Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (12th Oct 16 at 1:41am UTC)Quote Reply
I believe the Dogs of War #2 cover by JG Jones was probably the second published cover he did. The first was Dark Dominion #7. He also did Dark Dominion #8 and #9, but snuck in the cover for Dogs #2.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (12th Oct 16 at 4:52am UTC)Quote Reply
Agreed.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (12th Oct 16 at 5:21am UTC)Quote Reply
Jim Shooter brought Art Holcomb into the comics industry with Dogs of War. He also discovered JG Jones and his first pro comic work was on Dark Dominion. I know there are other comic creators who did their first pro work at DEFIANT.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Oct 16 at 1:07am UTC)Quote Reply
In the editorial written by Debbie Fix and published in Dogs of War #4, she refers to Dogs of War as a mini-series.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Oct 16 at 5:53am UTC)Quote Reply
It was plotted for 8 issues by Jim Shooter and it was going to conclude with the character attempting to commit suicide.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Oct 16 at 6:30am UTC)Quote Reply
Wow.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Oct 16 at 6:30am UTC)Quote Reply
Do you have any more info or links relative to that? Sounds intriguing.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Oct 16 at 7:40am UTC)Quote Reply
Btw, did Art Holcomb write any more comics, or was Dogs of War all he scripted in the field?
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Oct 16 at 4:46pm UTC)Quote Reply
I googled Holcomb. Looks like he's been fairly prolific as a writer.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Oct 16 at 10:36pm UTC)Quote Reply
In an editorial in Dogs of War 5, Art Holcomb said he and Shooter had monthly plotting meetings with Shooter on the phone. I'm thinking Shooter probably had such meetings regarding every DEFIANT title.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 12:23am UTC)Quote Reply
 
Btw, did Art Holcomb write any more comics, or was Dogs of War all he scripted in the field?


He went to work for Valiant in the late 90's I know he wrote some Eternal Warrior specials. I tried to contact him and he even visited once. He's one of many curious DEFIANT creators who came here, made promises to look for some old stuff and then never came back. Joe James posted one time... maybe two. It was REALLY disappointing that so many creators made promises and then treated their words with such little regard afterwards. If I say "I'm going" to do something... write it in stone. If I say "I'll try..." or "I intend.." that's an entirely different thing.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 12:28am UTC)Quote Reply
 
I googled Holcomb. Looks like he's been fairly prolific as a writer.


I'm not surprised. His dialogue and Shooter's plotting went hand in hand perfectly.

I think Georges Jeanty got his start at DEFIANT. His art was a little weak in the beginning, but it accomplished it's intended purpose which is more than I can say for artists today. Georges went to work for some other indy company for going mainstream. He's had steady work with Dark Horse on Buffy since and has had many meeting with Joss Whedon about the Buffy series' (plural).

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 12:30am UTC)Quote Reply
 
In an editorial in Dogs of War 5, Art Holcomb said he and Shooter had monthly plotting meetings with Shooter on the phone. I'm thinking Shooter probably had such meetings regarding every DEFIANT title.


He flew Georges Jeanty to New York from Miami one time. I'd say the plotting sessions you see in the "Inside the Tower" video are probably legitimate and that could probably be done over the phone without any problem.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 12:43am UTC)Quote Reply
 
Btw, did Art Holcomb write any more comics, or was Dogs of War all he scripted in the field?


It was covered on my old board. The Good Guys were going to have a crossover. One of the kids was going to find a gun. Mazerov (Shooter) was going to be chasing one of the Good Guys, see the kid with a gun and accidentally kill the kid. He was going to feel so bad about it that he climbs the top of a building and jumps from the skyscraper to kill himself. The plot was so interesting to Georges Jeanty that he was still excited about it enough to tell me some 20 years after the fact. He has a really poor memory about his time at DEFIANT except certain highlights and he definitely remembers that plot.

This is what is cool about Shooter's plotting. Let's say issue #8 ends with Mazerov splattered on the pavement. The mini-series ends. It's over right? Maybe not. He's a superhero with super powers. Let's speculate he attempts to kill himself and can't! Has that plot ever been explored in comics? If Superman wanted to kil himself, he'd have to subject himself to Kryptonite. What if there was no Kryptonite and he hated his own life so bad that he wanted to end it? How would he deal with that. He can't even put himself out of his own misery. That's a whole new avenue to explore. Jim's plotting evolves and grows and expands upon previous scenarios as real life does. His stories don't have a start and finish. Everything has consequences and byproducts to those consequences. This is why I like Jim's plotting. His dialogue I can take or leave. The plotting is awesome.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 1:58am UTC)Quote Reply
 
 
Btw, did Art Holcomb write any more comics, or was Dogs of War all he scripted in the field?


He went to work for Valiant in the late 90's I know he wrote some Eternal Warrior specials. I tried to contact him and he even visited once. He's one of many curious DEFIANT creators who came here, made promises to look for some old stuff and then never came back. Joe James posted one time... maybe two. It was REALLY disappointing that so many creators made promises and then treated their words with such little regard afterwards. If I say "I'm going" to do something... write it in stone. If I say "I'll try..." or "I intend.." that's an entirely different thing.

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That really is disappointing they did that, but kind of cool they visited your board though at the same time.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 2:04am UTC)Quote Reply
 
 
Btw, did Art Holcomb write any more comics, or was Dogs of War all he scripted in the field?


It was covered on my old board. The Good Guys were going to have a crossover. One of the kids was going to find a gun. Mazerov (Shooter) was going to be chasing one of the Good Guys, see the kid with a gun and accidentally kill the kid. He was going to feel so bad about it that he climbs the top of a building and jumps from the skyscraper to kill himself. The plot was so interesting to Georges Jeanty that he was still excited about it enough to tell me some 20 years after the fact. He has a really poor memory about his time at DEFIANT except certain highlights and he definitely remembers that plot.

This is what is cool about Shooter's plotting. Let's say issue #8 ends with Mazerov splattered on the pavement. The mini-series ends. It's over right? Maybe not. He's a superhero with super powers. Let's speculate he attempts to kill himself and can't! Has that plot ever been explored in comics? If Superman wanted to kil himself, he'd have to subject himself to Kryptonite. What if there was no Kryptonite and he hated his own life so bad that he wanted to end it? How would he deal with that. He can't even put himself out of his own misery. That's a whole new avenue to explore. Jim's plotting evolves and grows and expands upon previous scenarios as real life does. His stories don't have a start and finish. Everything has consequences and byproducts to those consequences. This is why I like Jim's plotting. His dialogue I can take or leave. The plotting is awesome.

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To your point about everything in Shooter's plots having consequences, I remember something Shooter said about writing... He said something has to happen and there has to be a result of what happened. If there's no result of what happened, he said the writer doesn't know what he's doing. I've never forgotten that.


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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 3:16am UTC)Quote Reply
 
 
 
Btw, did Art Holcomb write any more comics, or was Dogs of War all he scripted in the field?


He went to work for Valiant in the late 90's I know he wrote some Eternal Warrior specials. I tried to contact him and he even visited once. He's one of many curious DEFIANT creators who came here, made promises to look for some old stuff and then never came back. Joe James posted one time... maybe two. It was REALLY disappointing that so many creators made promises and then treated their words with such little regard afterwards. If I say "I'm going" to do something... write it in stone. If I say "I'll try..." or "I intend.." that's an entirely different thing.

Defiant1



That really is disappointing they did that, but kind of cool they visited your board though at the same time.



Unfortunately, good intentions with no action is the equivalent of nothing.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 3:29am UTC)Quote Reply
Agreed.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 9:32am UTC)Quote Reply
 
 
 
Btw, did Art Holcomb write any more comics, or was Dogs of War all he scripted in the field?


It was covered on my old board. The Good Guys were going to have a crossover. One of the kids was going to find a gun. Mazerov (Shooter) was going to be chasing one of the Good Guys, see the kid with a gun and accidentally kill the kid. He was going to feel so bad about it that he climbs the top of a building and jumps from the skyscraper to kill himself. The plot was so interesting to Georges Jeanty that he was still excited about it enough to tell me some 20 years after the fact. He has a really poor memory about his time at DEFIANT except certain highlights and he definitely remembers that plot.

This is what is cool about Shooter's plotting. Let's say issue #8 ends with Mazerov splattered on the pavement. The mini-series ends. It's over right? Maybe not. He's a superhero with super powers. Let's speculate he attempts to kill himself and can't! Has that plot ever been explored in comics? If Superman wanted to kil himself, he'd have to subject himself to Kryptonite. What if there was no Kryptonite and he hated his own life so bad that he wanted to end it? How would he deal with that. He can't even put himself out of his own misery. That's a whole new avenue to explore. Jim's plotting evolves and grows and expands upon previous scenarios as real life does. His stories don't have a start and finish. Everything has consequences and byproducts to those consequences. This is why I like Jim's plotting. His dialogue I can take or leave. The plotting is awesome.

Defiant1



To your point about everything in Shooter's plots having consequences, I remember something Shooter said about writing... He said something has to happen and there has to be a result of what happened. If there's no result of what happened, he said the writer doesn't know what he's doing. I've never forgotten that.




He does even more than that because the changes are multilayered and non-linear.

You may have a story about a girl going to the store to buy blue hair dye. She gets home, dyes her hair, and her dad kills her in a rage. That's a linear progression. Change occurred. An action produced a result.

If she goes to the store to buy blue hair dye... the store clerk falls in love with her... the store clerk's girlfriend notices.... the dad kills the girl that bought the blue hair dye... the girlfriend of the store clerk commits suicide... that is non-linear... less predictable, and more organic. Hence more entertaining in my opinion. The story is not about the girl who buys blue hair dye, but it's now about the clerk who ventured out in love to expand his future and was set back and left with less than he had before he started. The less obvious the plot, the better it is.

You can have a linear plot that progresses like drawing a straight line on a piece of paper or you can have multiple plots that twist, connect, and intertwine like a strand of DNA. Stories with linear progression bore me endlessly. So many modern comic readers can't tell the difference, that I don't even like conversing with those people.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (14th Oct 16 at 8:07pm UTC)Quote Reply
I was listening to a recent NormMacdonald interview where he mentioned an actor from Seinfeld who attempted suicide and lived when he still survived his gunshot wound. He was so depressed when he was facing getting his leg amputated from diabetes the day before his surgery and just did a suicide attempt. When it didn't fully go through...he was so messed up at the failed attempt that he called 911 for help, still conscious and aware of everything. That's a pretty tortured thing to go through...to realize you're still alive after going through the pain of actually going through with the act....kind of like saying: "damn i'm still here!"....making his suffering situation even worse and even more depressed. Anyhow the topic reminded me while reading the last few issues of Dogs.

The Dogs of War storyline showed Mazerov getting progressively worse with each issue. By issue #5, he was guilt ridden and drinking himself drunk. I could imagine the last 3 issues would have been even more brutal for the close of the mini series. I bet "The Gun" storyline was the next big storyline right after Schism. The last pages of the final issue of Good Guys #9 showed "Skrag" picking up the gun leftover from a fight with the bad guys.

Another bit in the editorials, it mentioned Holcomb was slated to also write The Great Grimmax #1. Smiley {Angry}

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (15th Oct 16 at 3:48am UTC)Quote Reply
Interesting stuff. Yeah that would have been nice to read Holcomb Great Grimmax issues.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (29th Oct 16 at 9:14pm UTC)Quote Reply
Here's the cameo that Prudence made in Warriors of Plasm 5. I believe it to be the first appearance of Prudence.

Image

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (30th Oct 16 at 12:17am UTC)Quote Reply
That's what I remembered. Not a great first appearance.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (30th Oct 16 at 12:19am UTC)Quote Reply
No, but I think it's a legit cameo first appearance.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (30th Oct 16 at 12:25am UTC)Quote Reply
Agreed. It should be mentioned on my issue notes for WoP#5.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (2nd Nov 16 at 12:27am UTC)Quote Reply
I found it written elsewhere on the internet that Warriors of Plasm #4 page 14 panel 4 features a depiction of Magnus and Shadowman. I need to remember to check that out.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (2nd Nov 16 at 12:58am UTC)Quote Reply
I don't remember.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (2nd Nov 16 at 1:07am UTC)Quote Reply
I'll try to get a pic of that panel and post it here... this weekend as usual.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (2nd Nov 16 at 1:32am UTC)Quote Reply
Smiley

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (5th Nov 16 at 8:20pm UTC)Quote Reply
Warriors of Plasm #4, page 14, panel 4... Note: Small portions of a couple nearby panels crept into this picture, but the panel in question can easily be identified as the larger one. Toward the upper left corner, near the narration box, is a character that looks like Shadowman. Below Shadowman a bit is a character that is smaller and is dressed in red and clearly looks like Magnus Robot Fighter. The colorist must have been in on it to get the colors correct on those two characters.
Image

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (5th Nov 16 at 10:41pm UTC)Quote Reply
I think I remember seeing magnus.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (5th Nov 16 at 10:59pm UTC)Quote Reply
I probably wouldn't have caught this in a million years.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Nov 16 at 6:11pm UTC)Quote Reply
Saw Georges Jeanty. He has a horrible memory. I had to remind him that I ran the DEFIANT comics site and that I was the one who bought all of the Dogs of War art from him. I told him that he met one of my board members. He said "really". I said "He brought you some Dogs of War comics to sign. He said "Oh, Yeah. No one ever brings that stuff." Image
He had some Marvel art he was selling. I mentioned that the last piece I got from him was the DEFIANT Advertorial. I told him that I didn't think it was published. He said that he thought it was published in the CBG.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Nov 16 at 6:55pm UTC)Quote Reply
That's funny. I wish I had his memory. lol... Smiley

I brought him 2 sets of Dogs on 2 different conventions. I brought you up and he said "oh yea, he bought some defiant art from me." He had some nice hardcovers at his table.

I see he's still on the new Serenity books at DarkHorse.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Nov 16 at 7:27pm UTC)Quote Reply
 
That's funny. I wish I had his memory. lol... Smiley

I brought him 2 sets of Dogs on 2 different conventions. I brought you up and he said "oh yea, he bought some defiant art from me." He had some nice hardcovers at his table.

I see he's still on the new Serenity books at DarkHorse.


I'm not shocked. He didn't have any new sketchbooks, so I didn't buy anything. Some other guy came up asking if he'd do a sketch. I slipped away at that point.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Nov 16 at 9:25pm UTC)Quote Reply
So, his saying no one brings him Dogs of War stuff is questionable, given his memory.
Lol
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (13th Nov 16 at 10:49pm UTC)Quote Reply
Yeah. I would say that most of his fans are Buffy fans.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (24th Nov 16 at 5:15pm UTC)Quote Reply
 
Warriors of Plasm #4, page 14, panel 4... Note: Small portions of a couple nearby panels crept into this picture, but the panel in question can easily be identified as the larger one. Toward the upper left corner, near the narration box, is a character that looks like Shadowman. Below Shadowman a bit is a character that is smaller and is dressed in red and clearly looks like Magnus Robot Fighter. The colorist must have been in on it to get the colors correct on those two characters.
Image




This is cool. I like it when they include little Easter eggs like this in a story.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (3rd Dec 16 at 10:07pm UTC)Quote Reply
I just searched for individual Splatterball raw comics. None available on eBay. None available at mycomicshop. Mile High has the Splatterball first printing available in VF.
The last time I checked for this issue there were a few available on eBay, and mycomicshop had the first and second print in stock. This book may be drying up.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (3rd Dec 16 at 10:18pm UTC)Quote Reply
Was Splatterball a comic that came inside the trading card binder? If not, how was it distributed? I don't recall.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (3rd Dec 16 at 11:30pm UTC)Quote Reply
 
Was Splatterball a comic that came inside the trading card binder? If not, how was it distributed? I don't recall.


Yes, it came in the binder. The ones foil stamped "Premier Edition" came in the 1st edition binder. The ones foil stamped "Second Edition" came in the 2nd edition binder. The 3rd edition binders were not shipped with a comic. The origin of the ones missing the foil is not clear.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (4th Dec 16 at 12:29am UTC)Quote Reply
 
Btw, did Art Holcomb write any more comics, or was Dogs of War all he scripted in the field?


You asked this a few months ago and I forgot that I had started Bibliography pages. This was already online, but nothing linked to it. I put them to rest in 2004 and most were not complete.

http://defiant.net78.net/Creators/AHolcomb_Credits.html

Quote:
Last Updated: 5/23/04

Disclaimer: This Bibliography has not been verified for accuracy or completeness. The information was culled from online and print sources and should only be used as reference information.
Holcomb, Art

Acclaim Comics

(See Valiant Comics)

Defiant Comics


Story/Plot


Dogs of War 1-5

Marvel Comics


Story/Plot

Professor Xavier and the X-Men 10

Valiant Comics


Story/Plot


Eternal Warrior: The Wings of Justice (Special)*
Eternal Warriors (featuring Archer & Armstrong) (Special)*
Eternal Warriors: Black Works (Special)*
Eternal Warriors: Digital Alchemy (Special)*
Eternal Warriors: MOG (Special)*
Eternal Warriors: Time and Treachery (Special)*
Eternal Warriors: The Immortal Enemy (Special)*
* not numbered


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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 3:34pm UTC)Quote Reply
Remember when I got that batch of DEFIANT stuff awhile back that had the proofs? The proofs were clearly made for editorial reasons. In that batch was also a Plasm 0 one-staple variant, which is said to have been given only to DEFIANT employees. In addition, that batch had two Splatterball no foil variants. It all tied together. That batch of DEFIANT rareties was likely put together by a former DEFIANT employee in my opinion, and the stuff in it may have been only available to DEFIANT employees.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 5:33pm UTC)Quote Reply
 
Remember when I got that batch of DEFIANT stuff awhile back that had the proofs? The proofs were clearly made for editorial reasons. In that batch was also a Plasm 0 one-staple variant, which is said to have been given only to DEFIANT employees. In addition, that batch had two Splatterball no foil variants. It all tied together. That batch of DEFIANT rareties was likely put together by a former DEFIANT employee in my opinion, and the stuff in it may have been only available to DEFIANT employees.


I won't dispute the claims, but others have said that DEFIANT handed out some of the one-staple variants at conventions.
There is a theory that some of the non-foil Splatterball comics may be error comics that stuck together and did not receive the foil stamp. All of the proposed scenarios could be true even if an employees only had one perspective by which to state his own claims.

There are also generic reports from that time period that employees at the printers were sneaking out test printing or variants from other publishers (stealing). It's reasonable to assume there could have been similar DEFIANT items slipped out the back door. Rare variants were like money in the bank back then. We may still discover even more rare versions of comics if that is the case.

I was interested in publishing a comic in the late 90's. I was sent a package from a printer that supplied several comics to show paper stock and cover stock so I'd visually know what I was getting if I used their printing service. It's possible that unauthorized or test printings of comics were distributed as printer samples.

For that reason, I'm not going to nail down one possibility of how they came to enter the collector's market.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 7:20pm UTC)Quote Reply
I agree that the theory some no foil copies of this book may be errors. There might be smoke where there's fire regarding the rumors regarding the one-staple Plasm 0 variant being passed out at cons too.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 7:50pm UTC)Quote Reply
 
I agree that the theory some no foil copies of this book may be errors. There might be smoke where there's fire regarding the rumors regarding the one-staple Plasm 0 variant being passed out at cons too.


Even if they were handed out at cons, I don't expect the number to be large. Often at cons, they'll have sample publications for attendees to review. At the end of the show they might not want to pack up something like that and they may hand it to someone at the end of the day. Topps printed up photocopies of their B&W art for books in production. They had photocopies of the books on their convention tables and some of those have surfaced into the hands of collectors. I have a saddle-stich bound version of Continuity's "Guts of Continuity" publication, but notebook bound versions of the same publication have surfaced on eBay.

While I do suspect bound versions were given away at cons I am reluctant to estimate a quantity. 1? 5? 25? 100? I have no idea.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 8:21pm UTC)Quote Reply
An unknown % of stuff given away at cons ends up in the trash.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 9:11pm UTC)Quote Reply
True, but that's the stuff I'm the most diligent to save.
I still have Phobos flyers from Dragon Con.

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 9:46pm UTC)Quote Reply
That's a good idea to save that stuff.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 10:00pm UTC)Quote Reply
Either it's a good idea or I'm a hoarder. I haven't decided.
LOL!

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Dec 16 at 10:38pm UTC)Quote Reply
Lol
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (20th Jul 17 at 5:49am UTC)Quote Reply
Dark Dominion 7 was JG Jones' first pro work, so the cover to that issue was his first published cover. He did the covers to Dark Dominion 8 as well as Dogs of War 2, both having had a May 1994 release date. So, it likely should be considered that Dogs of War 2 and Dark Dominion 8 are tied for the second JG Jones covers to be published.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (21st Jul 17 at 12:41am UTC)Quote Reply
That sounds right. I've mentioned before that the art in this publication pre-dates his work at DEFIANT, but it was published after DEFIANT shut down...

http://defiant.x10.bz/Other/Rant/001_Rant_Defiant_Related.html

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (21st Jul 17 at 12:44am UTC)Quote Reply
Interesting.
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (10th Aug 17 at 9:14pm UTC)Quote Reply
I regret not buying this now. I made an offer and received a counter offer and then forgot about it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PLASM-Defiant-Comic-Collectible-3-envelopes-3-story-cards-Shooter-Lapham-VF-NM-/391793089901?hash=item5b38b01d6d:g:FwIAAOSwcgNZJI3V
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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (11th Aug 17 at 12:39am UTC)Quote Reply
It's Koch! He probably has more!

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Re: Miscellaneous DEFIANT notes (19th Mar 18 at 2:33am UTC)Quote Reply
In CBG# 1057, Peter David mentions that he worked at Marvel and was going to name a team "The Misfits." Apparently, Jemm and the Holograms were going to have antagonists called the Misfits and Marvel was working with Hasbro. The alternate working name was "The Good Guys", but the team never reappeared so the anme was not used. he then goes on to say "Of course, if I hadn't been fired and the group had returned, it means that Defiant would have been publishing a title with the exact same name as a previously existing Marvel group. But I doubt that would have presented a problem, because Marvel has a long history of being a real good sport about such things. Right, guys? Right, Jim?"

It's a jab at Defiant's lawsuit with Marvel.

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