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Life After Comics II :: Comic Book Discussion :: General Comics Discussion :: The Jim Shooter Thread - View Topic (Page 2 of 5)Page: 1 2 3 4 5
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vikingspawn
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (12th Sep 15 at 3:09pm UTC)
agh!! Smiley lol...so that was his writing then. Smiley

Did you stick around and buy the post Unity issues to be a completist? I bought Defiant/Broadway as they came out and then would get the early Acclaim launch as those were happening, thinking Shooter would somehow be back on those again from the start. Then Unity2000 was exciting for the first 2 issues and then poof! Disapeared again. It wasn't until after the speculator prices went down that I went to finish the early valiants. I actually got the nintendos as they came out before them.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (12th Sep 15 at 11:12pm UTC)
 
agh!! Smiley lol...so that was his writing then. Smiley

Did you stick around and buy the post Unity issues to be a completist? I bought Defiant/Broadway as they came out and then would get the early Acclaim launch as those were happening, thinking Shooter would somehow be back on those again from the start. Then Unity2000 was exciting for the first 2 issues and then poof! Disapeared again. It wasn't until after the speculator prices went down that I went to finish the early valiants. I actually got the nintendos as they came out before them.

Smiley


Just prior to Dark Adventure Con, I was in the shop of the owner and he looked bummed out. He says something to the effect "That's not Good!" He'd just gotten off the phone with the Valiant Offices and this is how I found out Jim Shooter no longer worked there. I knew something was terribly wrong and in my mind I could not imagine how the stories could maintain the same quality and tight integration. As the months went by, I gave them a fair chance, but I still remained cautious. I wasn't real pleased with the directions of any of the books. I knew that Rai and Magnus were going to flip to a dystopia from Dark Adventure Con and that didn't sit well with me. The stories were even more horrid than I imagined they would be. Anything by VanHook simply pissed me off. It was watered down garbage compared to the stuff Shooter had written. Harbinger held some integrity up until #25 and it turned to shit the following issue. I stuck with Harbinger the longest. I stuck with X-O until about #20 or so. I went from buying 3 copies, to one copy, then none.
I gave Valiant a shot with things unrelated to their Superhero universe. I bought Waterworld, Baywatch, things like that. I was at comics stores 3 or more days a week, so I monitored the crap as it unfolded without buying any of it. Later I became friends with Kari Wuhrer's cousin online and I bought back issues of Sliders to see what it was about. I bought about 5 copies of the last issue of X-O Manowar because I was glad Layton's pet series had died. I was so happy when he was booted out. I watched the Acclaim stuff abuse the characters more and sicken me. I was so happy when it ended. When Shooter was hired for Unity 2000, I was hoping they were going to put him in charge. I supported all the stuff he wrote and even the stuff he didn't in hopes he was involved with the plotting. I think I was buying 20 copies each of Unity 2000, but ended up with 35 copies of #3 due to me firing the comic shop I was buying from. I was buying 10 copies of Armorines by issue #4. I was posting on the Usenet until some award winning author (Hugo Award winner?) wrote that Acclaim was done. I asked him to put up or shut up with the info because I'd seen no other evidence that was true. Even Jame Perham was saying the complete opposite. I became loathed at that point by many because I got tired of people talking shit with vague rumors. This goes back to the fact that an INTJ personality type will dissect the sacred cow to know what the truth is. This is the period when I found out Marvel writer Steven Grant thought that I might actually be Jim Shooter online. Valiant's wave three died and Shooter's project never came to completion. I was pissed. I quit all comic subscriptions at that point. I only bought off the shelf, but the LCS manager had been trained by me to read my mind. He'd order shit knowing I'd buy it off the shelf. Basically there was a standing policy that if he ordered it, I was not under any obligation to buy it. He ordered stuff anyway and I bought stuff anyway. If there was something "special" that the manager thought I wanted, I'd usually buy it if I was in agreement whether it was premium or not. Rarely was he confused about what interested me.

Somewhere around 2003 (I'm guessing), I was pointed towards Greg's board and asked to join. It was a byproduct of me scoping out some of Janet's art for sale on eBay. I was always familiar with Greg going back to his beginnings, as well as Joe Petrilak, and SonicDan. I knew joe was flaky, Dan was pretty Level headed and cool, and Greg was a manipulative twit. Of the three, Greg had been the one I least wanted to converse with. I joined his board at the requests of others. While I was there, I did entertain the notion of having a complete Valiant set of comics. Not because I wanted to read them or thought they were good. I thought it would be an interesting novelty to own it all and I knew i could pick up most of it for a dime in bulk. I bought a run of X-O (past what i already owned ) for about $10 in a long box full with other stuff in it too. I picked up shitloads of the stuff at a dime a book. Even the last issues that Greg was claiming were worth $10 or more. Ultimately though, I got more and more disgusted with Valiant, Valiant fans, and everything post-1992. Greg fueled my lack of respect for him and my complete disinterest in anything related to Valiant. Greg is a lot like the million gallons of toxic mine waste water getting poured downstream polluting anything that had been good about the river. I have a lot of the valiant crap. I've had no inclination to read any of it. I sold off some of my later rarities that I owned. I gave away some CGC books from a one shot try of their service. Someday I'll start kicvking myself for ever thinking it would be cool to own a complete set of valiant. The new stuff is even more laughable.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (14th Sep 15 at 8:58pm UTC)
So you collected as it happened during those original Valiant years. I would watch the coverage from afar by reading articles from Wizard, Hero Illustrated and FAN for news on valiant when the internet wasn't around. I saw the bragging Wizard Top 10 lists with valiant titles at high price points that my local shops would mimic for their back issue pricing. I'm glad i don't have the completist bug to collect anymore issues past the Shooter issues. There aren't any creators that interest me enough to get the later runs either. Plasm I bought from the Previews Catalog with the zero issue and then I would collect Plasm #1 and up as they came out each month going forward. It wasn't until some shops marked the valiants down close to cover price that i got the early superhero stuff. Some of those shops I bought valiants from cheap had since imploded with the comic crash. I remember the crazy amount of Ultraverse titles too.

I haven't counted how many vei variants that line is up to. They must be crossing the 1000 mark by now. I noticed unity is getting cancelled:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/celebrate-the-end-of-valiants-unity-with-a-humor-spectacular/

gotta be frustrating to be into that line.

Smiley
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (14th Sep 15 at 10:30pm UTC)
Almost! I got back into collecting around the time X-Men #1 came out with the 5 covers. I was broke and hanging out at a rock n' roll club on the northeast side of Atlanta. A bouncer and the soundboard guy for the rock band Jackyl were always talking about comics. The sound guy was later fired when Jackyl got their record contract, but that's another story. One day they were chatting and I was just listening. They paused in their conversation and I said "I have some comics, what is X-Men #1 going for." They looked at me like I was an idiot. The bouncer says "It hasn't come out yet?" I said "I'm talking about the one from 1963. I have 2 copies." Their eyes popped out of their head. I never paid cover charge again after that. The bouncer was very good at predicting hot comics. He was making real good money and he was speculating big time. He was keyed in big on Valiant, but I don't think I first heard about them from him. At some point I pulled all of my comics out of storage and was reading them all. I read X-Men #1 to about 162 straight through. I didn't have much money because I quit two jobs back to back. [I've NEVER been fired from a job.] I was ready to start buying comics so I bought something Jim Lee had drawn and something Rob Liefeld had drawn. The art disgusted me. I was about to quit buying comics altogether again. So one day I'm shopping at a store and talking to my friend who managed it. I had bought comics from him in the early 80's, so me being back in the store was like a reunion of sorts. The store had moved locations a couple of times, but it was pretty much the same store which started as a comic shop, but found more profit in original movie posters. By this time, comics were just a strong side business. I was telling him I was disgusted with the art. Out of frustration I said "What happened to stuff like John Romita Jr. and Bob Layton on Iron Man. What is Bob Layton doing?" He said "Oh, he's working for Jim Shooter's company now." I said "Jim who?" He explained who Jim Shooter was. He came out from behind the counter and pointed to a Magnus #10 I think. They didn't have a #1, but I bought a #2 and maybe a #10. I know I bought #2 and loved the art. Especially the cover. Around the same time I went to a convention and my friend saw a dealer with a stack of Harbinger #1's on the table. I'd never heard of it. He starts whispering in my ear like he's just spotted a Wells Fargo driver leaving a bag of money on the sidewalk and driving off. He's rambling that no one else has the book and that he's going to buy them all. I was clueless. I had no idea why he thought it was the book to have. He bought them all and spent the rest of the show trying to track down the source and if there were anymore. The trail eventually led to the warehouse manager at Diamond's Atlanta distribution hub. He was making arrangements to buy everything he wanted. A good portion got directed to Keith Contarino who was a high grade Silver age dealer that was typically a snob about new comics except Valiant. At some point I discovered the coupon program for Harbinger and the ones I missed. I really started in the beginning buying up any Valiant I liked thinking my bouncer friend would want them. He would always say "No, you keep them. I've got a 10 pack coming from Kingpin (or some other mid-level distributor). " Everything I bought was going up in value, so later I started buying extra because I thought they were the best comics I'd ever read and my other collector friends weren't buying them. My plan was to guarantee that my friends would have an opportunity to own a set. Same deal though, everyone sourced them on their own. I had also gotten into trading my duplicate 80's books for Silver Age. I traded for a Tales To Astonish #60. Later I traded miller Daredevils, a Defenders #1 and stuff like that for a Strange Tales #110. I thought the retailer was an idiot (seriously), but it became evident that by being creative, I could leverage for comics I wanted much more. With Valiant increasing in value so fast, I felt like it was money in the bank. There was one situation where I told a retailer he should mark up Magnus #12's. I said they're going to be hot and said that he wouldn't be able to restock at the $4 he had them marked. He was a smart ass and said "If it's such a good deal, why don't you buy them all." Because he was being such a smart ass, I did. Regardless, by Oct. 1992, I had all the superhero Valiant comics in depth. I only had two Harbinger #1's and one was damaged and that was fine because it's the one that I took the coupon out of. By oct. 1992, I was buying up any Wrestling comics I needed as well as any Nintendo back issues. I was excited to find the Nintendo Hardcover books while everyone else was excited to find the superhero comics. I was a little late to the game, but I got in at the perfect time. Solar #10 selling out was the turning point for Valiant. The black cover drew everyone to the book. BWS's art made it an easy sell. It made the back issue prices real. I remember people walking in and asking for it. To keep their customers happy, retailers were calling their competitors to direct their customers to copies they could buy. People wanted it so badly, the retailer knew it was better to do that than leave them dissatisfied. By 1992, I was so deep into the stories that I was seeing the synchronicity between between the books and comparing the time stamps.

Then Shooter was ousted and it turned to shit.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (14th Sep 15 at 11:01pm UTC)
I saw that Unity was ending. I researched to see if DMG was hurt by the China stock market collapse. Never saw anything one way or another.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (16th Sep 15 at 11:29pm UTC)
That's pretty intuitive how you stocked up on the early stuff right before they took off then. I was remembering where I was in that period and didn't buy then..I was stuck in school and only got to the shops once every 3 months and holidays. By then when I did make it to the shops, they were all gone with the comic hype. Smiley

If only some of that buzz magic could have happened twice for the DarkHorse GK line in 2010. Smiley

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (17th Sep 15 at 12:46am UTC)
 
That's pretty intuitive how you stocked up on the early stuff right before they took off then. I was remembering where I was in that period and didn't buy then..I was stuck in school and only got to the shops once every 3 months and holidays. By then when I did make it to the shops, they were all gone with the comic hype. Smiley

If only some of that buzz magic could have happened twice for the DarkHorse GK line in 2010. Smiley



I could turn this into a religious discussion but I won't. Let me just say there was some uncanny synchronicity going on in my life and I feel as though a divine hand put me in certain places at certain times. Choices I made led me to know things that others at the time didn't know.

As I said above, when I was broke I pulled my collection out of storage. Hulk was my favorite character. I wanted all of his Tales to Astonish appearances. I could not afford high grade copies, but as luck had it, my local comic shop had old issues for $2 to $6 a piece. It was stuff that had gone unsold for over 10 years and they'd never bothered to increase the prices. I was buying those as I could. I'd read the full run of X-men straight through from it's start in 1963 to somewhere around 1983 or 1984, so it was fresh in my mind along with some of those early letter pages that I'd also read. . In that period, I was reading comics that were from the dawn of the Marvel Universe being created. While reading an issue of Tales to Astonish, I saw that there was a panel in the actual comic that was repeated on the cover. I had it side by side with something like a Harbinger issue where Valiant had done the same thing. What I saw in Valiant was a modernized version following a template of what Stan Lee had done in the 60's. I truly feel as though Valiant was poised to be the next Marvel Comics and that they were doing EVERYTHING right. I felt as though I was investing in the future Amazing Fantasy #15, Hulk #1 etc.
Had the river not changed course in 1992, I think we'd be looking at Valiant and Marvel ruling the comics world with DC discarded by the wayside. I think the collapse of quality in the 90's would have stopped. I think comics history would be nothing like it is today. Rather than pumping out crap, I think the publishers would have been forced to pump out quality to compete. I think the collectors would not have abandoned the hobby. I truly believe that.

At that time, I had a very good grasp of what retained value in the hobby and what lost value. In the 80's Teen Titan's #1 was a $10 comic. It was in dollar boxes by 1992. Iron Man#1 had been a $10 comic in 1982. It was a $150 comic in 1992. For this reason, I didn't care what everyone told me was hot. I was more interested in tangible reasons for any possible value increases. Today people will get excited because a new Spiderman series is starting over with a new #1. Realistically, he's had more than 5 series with a #1, not counting mini-series. Nobody will care in 5 years. The #1's for the various series' will blur together in people's minds. It's a bad investment book over the long term. My mind was weeding out hype and fads. When Shooter left Valiant, I weeded out the Valiant hype. I knew the substance was gone.

Mike Richardson is the reason the Gold Key reboot flopped. He was too busy just trying to keep his company afloat using the same formula that he's used for 20 years. It's a formula that can keep you in business for decades, but it has a 100% failure history if you look at every other company that took that route. It's the licensing model rather than the ownership model. Jim would have been able to change his company and make him #1 in the market. Richardson opted to push fucking Gold Key reprint hardbacks instead. Mike Richardson has no vision. He's too busy trying to lead employees with no vision. Dark Horse is the flag flapping in the wind as opposed the bow of the boat splitting the water and making it's own waves. I admire people who are proactive, not those who are reactive.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (17th Sep 15 at 8:23pm UTC)
He was headed in the right direction when he hired Shooter in 2009 and then gave up too quick on the line. Just when the art was getting their shit together with the Solar 4 part origin towards the end. Maybe the GK characters are more trouble than what it's worth to them. I remember there was also a Magnus 60 page zero issue mentioned that won't see the light of day. If Mike was really bold, he'd hire Jim as a head imprint editor and show him off to the industry. Be proud to have him on his team and market/promote the hell out of him. That would get things exciting in the small world of comics again.

Or Dreamworks...

Smiley
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (17th Sep 15 at 11:49pm UTC)
Based upon my rough math, the comics were barely covering the cost to produce them. Their real profit came through promoting the reprint books. I think Jim made a mistake by having so much sexual content in the comics. Yeah, the hobby is dominated by adult males drooling over female characters, but the stories should have been suitable for the biggest demographic audience as possible. Jim's stories build and convey a lot of setup before the real payload drops. It was a huge mistake to do the FCBD release. Giving away comics attract people who don't want to pay for comics. It's idiotic. You can't expect a good readership conversion when you are giving comics away to cheapskates and the majority of the book is establishing characters and relationships. Not only that, most people buying comics don't have the attention span to wait out until the real payload drops.

The hobby can't afford Jim in my opinion.

Dark Horse was ignoring fan feedback.

I think Dreamworks is just struggling to stay afloat. Unless a new player enters the field, I think it's unlikely to see Jim running another company. Even if he did, he's right at retirement age for most people.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (21st Sep 15 at 12:28am UTC)
I'm guessing it's easier for them to sell $50 hardcover reprints than pay to produce new comics that sell low. I noticed Barnes and Noble expanded their graphic novel section to an entire wall/aisle section at my store. I saw trades for Aliens and other Dark Horse stuff. Didn't bother to check if any Magnus/Solar/Samson though.


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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (21st Sep 15 at 1:39am UTC)
I was in a comic shop Friday and I looked for the DH Gold Key TPB's. They had mostly newer stuff. No Diamond limited TPB's either. The shop has moved to a retail space that's twice as large in the same dead strip mall. The parking is better but all the extra space was used for gaming tables which were not being used. If someone is going to play games, they are going to play ones they already own. So now this store is paying for twice the square footage and has no extra sales coming in to cover it. The model has always sounded idiotic to me. Gaming attracts people to hang out, but it doesn't generate enough extra sales to pay for the wasted square footage. I asked if they had any silver age comics and they looked at me like I was a dinosaur. I walked out with nothing.

But yeah, selling reprint volumes is more profitable. Prepping the art and recoloring it is the only extra expense.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (23rd Sep 15 at 10:45pm UTC)
Gaming shops have gotten pretty big. I was wondering how they exactly they make money. Renting tables? There's one comic shop here that got bought out and turned into a full time gaming place. They're even open until 3 in the morning. Always full of people.

Next time i'm at Barnes&Noble, i'll look out to see what else is in Dark Horse selections. There was a Solar reprint that had a Shooter intro:

http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/17-240/Doctor-Solar-Man-of-the-Atom-Archives-Volume-2-TPB

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th Sep 15 at 12:01am UTC)
I don't know of any "gaming shops". There have been comic shops that partition off a portion of the store and arrange sanctioned tournaments. There have been stores that just encourage people to show up and play games for free in hopes they'll buy something. I think the sanctioned tournaments charge a fee and that most of the money goes to the company that sanctions them. I don't know of any stores in Atlanta charging people to hang out and play games. I asked a guy who helps out at the store I visited. I hate talking about comics to him because he has no clue about the financial side of a comic shop. He works as a credit slave. He gets paid in free comics. It's a way for comic shops to avoid having employees on their payroll. It allows them to skirt around the employment laws. They don't have to pay social security or report it on their taxes. He told me that the store had recently bought out a gaming shop and that they are selling games. I call bullshit on that. He said the owner recently had another kid and needed to spend more time at home. I call bullshit on that. These are lies that owners say because they are losing money and they don't want to face the humiliation that their best effort failed. I've seen this crap before. Owners will tell you how well they are doing and then after they've been closed a few years they reveal the truth because they are so happy their money pit is not a worry anymore.
I asked the guy if they got a better price on rent. The strip mall is only about a third or half way rented. He said he thought so. I know the owner too and the owner probably wouldn't admit what he pays to this guy. I would go over financials with a lot of the people that owned or ran stores. This one guy I knew managed a store and he was just sure the store was making lots of profit under his management. I started plucking out numbers that he knew and started adding up the math. I looked at him and told him his store was barely breaking even. He was skeptical. Within a year the place was closed.

I would buy the DH Gold Key stories that Shooter worked on in TPB form because I know the print runs are VERY low. I have ZERO interest in the reprint stuff even if Jim did an introduction. I think the art completely sucks on MOST of those DH books Jim worked on and plotted with his peers. The only reason I'd buy them is because there are so few out there. I have about three of three of them but I've never even seen a Mighty Samson TPB. I'd only want the TPB's. Even the later issues of the comic are more abundant than I'd want. To sell them you'd need to have complete runs and they overprinted the early issues. I think the TPB's are solid investments that could be resold more easily simply because people didn't order them when they were solicited. The stuff that people ignore when they come out are usually the things that hold a better collectible value. Especially if it's a self contained item and doesn't require additional purchases.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th Sep 15 at 2:42pm UTC)
I remember the later MightySamson issues had print runs of 4500 and less. The trades probably were at tenth of that. Turok and Solar Volume two are probably just as low. I was looking at the monthly charts back then and it's amazing the release gaps these monthly issues had. 3 months for issue 2 then 8 months for the next...

Smiley
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th Sep 15 at 10:13pm UTC)
 
I remember the later Mighty Samson issues had print runs of 4500 and less. The trades probably were at tenth of that. Turok and Solar Volume two are probably just as low. I was looking at the monthly charts back then and it's amazing the release gaps these monthly issues had. 3 months for issue 2 then 8 months for the next...

Smiley


Smiley Exactly! Low Print runs. No chasing sets. Complete story. If anything will increase in value, it's the TPB's.
I think some are lower that 4500. Publishing gaps seem to be a big clue that a title is struggling. If you publish the first issue and it doesn't do well, you hope the second does well. The second issue is solicited before the first issue comes out. Sales typically drop. Publishers really don't have any idea if a comic is a success until the the 3rd or 4th issue.
By this time, they've paid for three issues to be produced and they realize that at best they are breaking even on the costs. Diamond probably hasn't paid them yet and they have to stop the bleeding of funds. This is when I see the delays kick in. They want to get all of their money into the bank. They are hoping readers in the stores will find it late and that the quality of the story will win over new readers. They kinda pay as they go for awhile or gamble and lose some more money. Them the release TPB's and hope that the people who waited for a TPB will help them turn a profit. Quite often the delays hurt sales further and the books are just losing money at that point. I've seen this cycle happen a lot. {Unsure}

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (26th Sep 15 at 5:58pm UTC)
I'd like to know what happened in those 3-8 month gaps to getting those monthly books out there. It's still a mystery. That's insanely long to publish monthly comic even for Shooter's standards.

I didn't find any GoldKey centric trades at Barnes&Noble the other day. I did notice some of the oversized Omnibus hardcovers for Buffy and Sin City. The rest were alot of Image Comics trades, DC Watchmen books. The usual Marvels and Manga.

The few Dark Horse books they did have looked nice. The oversized books were fat and hardbound inside plastic. I was thinking how cool a Plasm collection would look like if Dark Horse were to pursue that. *sigh*

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (27th Sep 15 at 3:41am UTC)
I think they were waiting for checks to roll in from Diamond for the stuff that was already published.
I don't think any of the Gold Key stories were directed the book store route.
I don't think you'll see any DEFIANT stuff published again. Too much of a mess to sort out and supposedly the original files are trapped in obsolete electronic file formats from the 90's.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (27th Sep 15 at 7:23pm UTC)
Here's a "gaming only store" in my area. Was never a comic shop. They find some way to make money. I'd prefer if all the gaming crap was out of the comic shops and in places like this.

http://www.readingeagle.com/money/article/deal-me-in-games-relocates-to-downtown-boyertown

I find the most fun comic shop in the area to be the one that doesn't carry new books. He's constantly buying collections, has a good idea of what stuff goes for because of eBay, but still prices everything friendly enough that you can make money by buying stuff from him. In turn, I sell or trade him stuff that I don't find easy to sell on eBay, but I know does well in his shop.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (27th Sep 15 at 7:37pm UTC)
When I say it's a waste of money and space for a comic book store it's because I've never seen them charge all the customers that hang out. I've never seen them buy anything either. A former manager told me they rarely or never buy anything. There was a pretty popular gaming only business called the "War Room" that closed down. The guy I talked to recently about it said there was another gaming store that shut down. I don't know how gaming stores operate when they are stand-alone businesses. I have no interest in walking in one to find out. I'd like a comic shop that didn't sell new comics. I don't think it would survive around Atlanta. Gaming in a comic book store would be justification for me to avoid it altogether. I find it to be an obnoxious mix of products. The comic book store I went to a couple of weeks ago had a Magnus #25 (Valiant) on the wall behind the register. I don't know if it was intended to be a joke or if the employees are to young to know how overproduced it was.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (28th Sep 15 at 2:22pm UTC)
Happy Birthday to Jim Shooter!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Shooter

Smiley Smiley
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (28th Sep 15 at 10:08pm UTC)


Happy Birthday to Jim.
Happy Birthday to Jim.
Happy Birthday up there in the upper stratosphere,
Happy Birthday to Jim.

Wait! Are birthdays happy after you turn 21? I don't f'ing think so!

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th Oct 15 at 3:11pm UTC)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/popculture/pop-culture-what-if-former-marvel-boss-jim-shooter-was/article_3ee053f0-ed58-5eab-9034-7f7b5a0a1d55.html

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th Oct 15 at 6:57pm UTC)
Good exposure. Wish it could get him a job in comics again.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (27th Oct 15 at 1:08pm UTC)
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (27th Oct 15 at 9:37pm UTC)
Didn't know he had a son. I assume this is new and his talks with Mr. Richardson are still pending. Short and to the point. Surprised that Google didn't censor it for the Bananarama song playing in the background.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (3rd Nov 15 at 10:35pm UTC)
Here's one for the Shooterswork checklist:

https://instagram.com/p/9g9ed_uCZW/

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (3rd Nov 15 at 11:09pm UTC)
I'm not going to ask how you find this stuff. Too funny. That might be his crowning achievement right there.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (4th Nov 15 at 1:54am UTC)
The Steve Guttenberg cover makes it even more collectible...

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (4th Nov 15 at 3:21am UTC)
 
The Steve Guttenberg cover makes it even more collectible...

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The first time I ever saw Steve Guttenberg was on the Tomorrow show with Tom Snyder. He was being interviewed and talking about how he got his first job in Hollywood. He stood outside the gates of the studio and didn't give up until someone gave him an acting job. Eventually they hired him.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (5th Nov 15 at 2:17pm UTC)
I remember him as Mahoney from Police Academy....I read he was working on bringing a new movie/reboot back again.

Here's another new JS interview:

http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/2015/11/04/podcast-394-jim-shooter-interview/

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (6th Nov 15 at 1:46am UTC)
I've downloaded it and I'm listening to it now. Almost 47 minutes,. This is going to be awhile.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (6th Nov 15 at 8:23am UTC)
It was fine. Unfortunately, I've heard it all before. The only thing new was that he might resume doing his blog.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (7th Nov 15 at 1:44pm UTC)
I liked the bit where he talked about the Ultimate Spiderman/MilesMorales comics. He said the covers would show the Spider-Man costume and the character doesn't put on the costume until the 4th issue.....and by then, you're out $48 dollars.

I need to reread his old blog coverage again.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (7th Nov 15 at 4:24pm UTC)
Perhaps this is why people said I sound like him online. This is a particular gripe that I have. If I buy a comic with Hulk on the cover, he better damn well be in the comic. I read a Silver Surfer comic where he did absolutely nothing but soar at the edge of space as a completely unrelated story was being told.

While the Miles Morales example may (not sure) be new, I feel that it is representative of things he's said in the past. His point... the concept... isn't new.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (27th Nov 15 at 4:03am UTC)
I think I'd be upset if I went to an Avengers movie and the Avengers weren't in it. {Rolleyes}
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (27th Nov 15 at 5:41pm UTC)
This new issue of Alter Ego has a JS interview:

http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=133&products_id=1218

Wonder if this is a part of a series of more interview issues spread out.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (27th Nov 15 at 8:02pm UTC)
Yeah... don't know. The interviewer is Richard Arndt which was Superggraphics's (George W's) friend & collaborator on his (Living?) Gargoyles reboot.

Isn't Alter Ego Roy Thomas' publication? I think I know someone online who wrote for Alter Ego. I always thought it was a pretty good magazine.

If I was patient, I'd strain my eyes and try to read their low resolution sample pages. I'm not going to try.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (28th Nov 15 at 1:53am UTC)
I see in the inside preview page that JayJay gets a "special thanks." I went ahead and ordered one but it says it's yet to be printed and the rest of the digital pages aren't available yet. I guess this ships in January.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (28th Nov 15 at 3:25am UTC)
 
I see in the inside preview page that JayJay gets a "special thanks." I went ahead and ordered one but it says it's yet to be printed and the rest of the digital pages aren't available yet. I guess this ships in January.

Smiley


She seems to be a pillar of support for anything he does related to comics. It looked like she colored one of the Hulk Magazine scans I posted recently. I've tried to cut back on buying magazines about comics because I prefer comics themselves.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Nov 15 at 12:27am UTC)
This is the first time in a while since I ordered from twomorrows site. I used to see their magazines at Barnes & Noble years back. It says this issue focuses on his first decade of comic work. Maybe there'll be some new Plasm art covers for when they get to cover decade 3 or 4?

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Nov 15 at 5:45am UTC)
That would be pretty cool. I don't know what it'd take to get some of the as yet unseen unpublished art to show up online. I'm sure Joe James has some, but he's never shown any of it and I think he keeps all of his work.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Nov 15 at 3:02pm UTC)
It's a good opportunity for coverage on the unpublished Schism too. I've seen old issues take scans from the internet and from comicartfans too for pics. I was wondering if Roy Thomas needed permission every time when using DC/Marvel characters on the covers of the magazines. Would they have to ring up classic media for permission to publish defiant/broadway characters on their covers? Smiley {Confused}

Or maybe it falls under fanzines....I dunno....

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Nov 15 at 4:35pm UTC)
If there are follow-up articles, they are going to want them to appeal to the largest audience possible. I can't really see them getting into Schism that deeply. It's too niche in my opinion. I'm thinking the writer probably doesn't have that many more resources than I had for collecting information and the creators were very inconsistent about wanting to dig through their stash of items to make this stuff available. It was more of a profit motivated venture for them. Either that or self-promotion which is also linked to future income. When editors visited my web sites, they all wanted to edit it in some capacity or another. Mr. Polgardy was the most obnoxious contact I made and he initiated it.

I think it might be a good idea to notify a copyright holder that you are using their character. It'd most likely fall under fair use. Being that the article is educational, you have a certain amount of leeway. Regardless, if the copyright holder is offended, they can sue you either way. I think a worst case scenario would be a cease and desist order and a request to have all the copies of the magazine recalled and destroyed. I think I'd want approval documented if the Trademark for the characters were used. That might be a little more protected. Dissolution of Trademark is a big deal. To show damages, a copyright holder has to show that money was specifically being made off of their properties and it has to be quantified.

A fanzine that loses money to produce a Superman article hasn't profited off of DC's character. Hence, no damages would be rewarded and the copyright holder has engaged in a petty legal dispute at their own legal expense. Most copyright holders aren't going to do that. The cease and desist letter is the cheapest way for a copyright holder to say "stop, this use offends us".

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (25th Dec 15 at 9:52pm UTC)
My copy of Alter Ego arrived this week. It's pretty cool and lenthy. So far it covers alot of his DC work from Superman to Legion to a ton of side stuff. It will take me awhile to read the whole thing. Skimming through it, there's a Jim Shooter "checklist" section were this bit of comic info stood out for me:

Continuity Comics: The New Heroes (w) c. 1989

{Confused}

During 1989....is this pre-Nintendo/Wrestling years?

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (26th Dec 15 at 12:22am UTC)
I'm not sure what that is. The only thing I know of by that name is a set of prints. It was of course produced by Neal and Continuity Studios, but it appears to be published by Sal Quartuccio (sp?). I'm trying to squint at the text on the jpg below since I don't have it handy or know exactly where it is in my collection. It's got a copyright of 1979, not 1989.

Jim did some work for Neal after he left Marvel and before he started Valiant. The year referenced is a reasonable date for any work he would've done for them.
Neal does have some unpublished Shooter scripts evidently because before Continuity ceased publishing comics in 1994, they had solicited some Megalith stories whith Jim Shooter credited as the writer. Jim was deeply involved with Defiant and the Marvel lawsuit at the time. It's unlikely that he'd taken time out of his busy schedule to write a side project for Neal. I guess it's possible that Jim could have written a script for Neal in exchange for the promo art that Neal did of Lorca. I'm more convinced that Jim had written the scripts much earlier.

Image



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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (26th Dec 15 at 1:23am UTC)
Megalith stories?...damn that would have been cool to see. I never knew he had stuff solicited as writer from Continuity in the 90s.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (26th Dec 15 at 5:59am UTC)
 
Megalith stories?...damn that would have been cool to see. I never knew he had stuff solicited as writer from Continuity in the 90s.

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It would have been VERY cool to see. With the intent on not sounding ignorant in this thread, I started thinking that the "Guts of Continuity" publication might have more definitive info on the solicitations. "Guts of Continuity" was a booklet that promoted their solicitations for the retailer with lots of artwork to go with it. It was published either in late 1993 or early 1994 and it was included in a Diamond Retailer Previews packet. I went on a quest to find it a little while ago. Unfortunately, I have NO f'ing idea where it is. I always find it when I'm not looking for it.

While searching, I saw a box of non-comic publications and the box was more yellowed than the others around it. I popped the lid to see what was in it. My eyes almost popped out of my head. It had some stuff that I didn't know I had. There were copies of Marvels "Sale To Astonish" publication. There were copies of Diamond Dialogue. I'm looking through some of them now. Unfortunately, the dates jump around. These are industry publications only intended for retailers. Because of the date range of these, it leads me to believe I may have copies of Previews that solicited either Defiant or Broadway. I did not think I had anything of this nature that was that old. I will be posting a Defiant article in a few minutes.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Dec 15 at 7:17pm UTC)
https://twitter.com/robertliefeld/status/681868769086410752

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Dec 15 at 8:20pm UTC)
Rob was probably too irresponsible to tell Jim why he wasn't going to call him back. Nice to see Rob's take on it after all these years.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (31st Dec 15 at 8:47pm UTC)
Makes me want to re-read Shadow State again.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (31st Dec 15 at 11:29pm UTC)
What would've been the deal breaker for Rob?

  • The 9-panel grid?
  • A description of the script and the photo references?
  • Shooter's pitch of the story published in Shadow State?
  • The publishing time frame?
  • A realistic theme or setting?

I just wonder exactly what made Rob decide it was off!

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (1st Jan 16 at 12:13am UTC)
I was thinking he probably couldn't/wouldn't handle the 9 panel grid pages with the textbook size scripts. And it would probably have been given off to one of his penciler lookalikes if they did do it. If Liefeld went as far as putting Shooter's name in one of the Image solicitations, there had to have been more plans than just a lunch meeting. Maybe Shooter put more thought and work into it than liefeld did.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (1st Jan 16 at 3:45am UTC)
 
I was thinking he probably couldn't/wouldn't handle the 9 panel grid pages with the textbook size scripts. And it would probably have been given off to one of his penciler lookalikes if they did do it. If Liefeld went as far as putting Shooter's name in one of the Image solicitations, there had to have been more plans than just a lunch meeting. Maybe Shooter put more thought and work into it than liefeld did.

Smiley

Maybe 5 minutes of Jim thinking about it is more thought than Rob has ever put into anything. From the minute I heard the announcement of Rob and Jim working together, I knew it would never come to pass.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (2nd Jan 16 at 8:09pm UTC)
 
What would've been the deal breaker for Rob?

  • The 9-panel grid?
  • A description of the script and the photo references?
  • Shooter's pitch of the story published in Shadow State?
  • The publishing time frame?
  • A realistic theme or setting?

I just wonder exactly what made Rob decide it was off!

Defiant1


I never knew about this but reading this here and following the links made me think that this is a sad state of affairs when somebody so completely inferior in pretty much every way can act like he killed this because it supposedly wasn't the right direction for him. Jim Shooter is so completely Superior to him in terms of what may have been just screams to me how bad things still truly are.

I've admittedly been away from comics about 3 years now, which for me, someone who has collected comics since 1978, is an awful long time. But I find it remains in my blood just enough that even when you have long breakaways from the craft either for financial, personal situation or plain out disgust issues, I invariably find the desire to want to come back eventually comes back the longer you are away.

Then I take a slight initiative and make the rounds at my site and over here. Something I haven't done in a long time and I read something like this and it just reminds you immediately that without looking any further than this, it doesn't feel like anything has gotten any better and my desire to get somehow back into comics is still remain with wanting to buy long desired back issues than to even think about wanting to buy anything new EVER again.

To me the comics industry has been reduced to idiocy when far inferior can kill off a meeting with far superior and somehow justify that a new direction would not be right for him.

Don't get me wrong, I have a great loathing for Image and all that time frame represented to what the industry was before them. I think the flaws of Liefeld are well documented and deserved and I'd fit right along with that crowd in a heartbeat, but I also have to shamefully admit a bit of respect for Liefeld for pulling off a style so all his own and full of flaws, that it's kinda powerful that he did that and still had a massive impact on the industry and for a time was one of the hottest sensations in comics and I find myself liking some of his pictures. Oh a ton of them I can't get into at all, but there are some with his style, coloring and exaggerated flaws....some of them I can't help but like and marvel that this dude has his own legacy and characters hitting the big time. Some time I just, gosh darn it, some times I can't help but admire it because really all he did is put out his own work and it paid off for him.

But just seeing him act like he decided this direction wasn't right for him, I just come to realize that this is all a huge part of the fatal direction that comics have been in for most of the last 25 years. I don't know what Bizzaro world we live in today where the tried and true of the past legends are just so lowly regarded as old washed up legacy relics of the past and their talents, ideas, ways of the past are no longer thought of as something more than a humorous thought to be digested away with the morning meal.



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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (3rd Jan 16 at 12:40am UTC)
This is the same guy who had a problem with the editor at DC and felt that the editor worked for him. Of course I'm not sure what editors do anymore, so maybe that all changed with people like Rob.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (4th Jan 16 at 3:08am UTC)
I seem to recall finding that quote on Twitter a couple of years back. It was a shake my head kinda moment even then. One thing I've never been into is Liefeld's ego. I guess he needs to project a self confidence and alpha malemanship to help out with whatever hype value he has, but I've always considered him kinda lucky to be where he is and has been. I always felt like some humility could have helped his PR over the years. I'm sure he could probably care less. But when you combine low moderate talent, with a decent amount of luck, even though he did put in his share of work, when I think of Youngblood, I really have no real memory of any character with any outstanding moment I could ever recall. They seemed so generic to me. I remember covers more than I remember anything about a character. You know when you can get with a legitimate writer, who has pretty much a near Hall of Fame kind of career, who seemingly can bring some life to any lifeless team given a small amount of time. I just feel like he might have been able to create a moment I might actually remember from Youngblood. I guess Liefeld felt that might damage his pinup, posing panels or something. I just honestly feel like what didn't work for him is it would have been too hard for him to put in the work that would need to be done for him to live up on his name versus Shooter's. I feel I would probably wind up reading articles with each side stating the other side was causing the delays in getting the books published. It reeks of ending up something like the Image United debacle. Delay and Conquer.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (4th Jan 16 at 3:20am UTC)
I don't think he's intelligent enough to have an ego. I think he just does what he feels like doing. I've said all along that the difference between someone famous and someone not is that the person who is famous got off his ass and did something. People who aren't famous could be famous by asserting themselves. Nobody is talented climbing out of the womb.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (4th Jan 16 at 4:44am UTC)
As much as I would buy a collaboration teamup of Shooter and Liefeld comics, I don't think that would ever happen on this planet. I think Rob's pretty entertaining in his interviews sometimes. In one of his podcast interviews, he calls his favorite Marvel era of comics growing up for him were the ones done in the Shooter years.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (4th Jan 16 at 5:49am UTC)
Whereas Jim could read Jack Kirby stories and understand the plotting enough to duplicate it at age 13, I don't think Rob shares that cognitive ability.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (13th Apr 16 at 2:18pm UTC)
The blog looks different:

http://jimshooter.server275.com/

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (13th Apr 16 at 10:18pm UTC)
It looks like the data has been exported and posted at a new host. This prompted me to see if that is possible and it appears it is. Wordpress has a page encouraging it.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (14th Apr 16 at 7:14pm UTC)
For a split second I thought that was his new blog background pic. Almost got excited for potential new updates.

{Unsure}
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (14th Apr 16 at 9:55pm UTC)
It's always feast or famine with Jim & JayJay. I think fans would be overjoyed to hear a paragraph of news or updates a month. It would be an invaluable marketing tool or mean to connect with possible new clients. I don't understand their decisions, but to each their own.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (19th Apr 16 at 1:09am UTC)
The long drought is grueling. In the blog, there's JayJay's name in place of Shooter's comment replies now. It must have changed as well during the new layout. If she was a moderator on there, must be a new bug in the system.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (19th Apr 16 at 4:14am UTC)
I always assumed she was posting his answers for him anyway. I've always expected for it to disappear and be put into a book.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th Apr 16 at 8:19pm UTC)
Okay. I'm caught up on this thread.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (28th Apr 16 at 7:03pm UTC)
Holy cow!

Blog updates!

http://jimshooter.com/

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Apr 16 at 1:17am UTC)
 
Holy cow!

Blog updates!

http://jimshooter.com/

Smiley


Nice to see.

"User registration is currently not allowed."

My old email and user ID are not recognized.

Will we be able to comment? Smiley

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Apr 16 at 4:37am UTC)
He's appearing at a Mile High store. He always had a good relationship with Chuck.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th Apr 16 at 8:51pm UTC)
 
He's appearing at a Mile High store. He always had a good relationship with Chuck.


That seems to be the truth consistently.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (30th Apr 16 at 3:16am UTC)
Cool ad!
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (30th Apr 16 at 8:09am UTC)
I think the scan was posted on Ryan's VCS messageboard by George Warner. I saved a lot of the images he posted.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (30th Apr 16 at 9:12pm UTC)
I read every one of Chuck's Tales From The Database columns he wrote for a publication (CBG?) and later published on his website. It was in those columns it became clear to me he and Shooter had a good relationship.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (30th Apr 16 at 10:37pm UTC)
Chuck is probably the only reason Valiant survived it's first year of superhero comics. Chuck ordered huge quantities of Magnus in the beginning. I knew there was a connection and I've read many articles re-enforcing the connection.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (2nd May 16 at 6:34pm UTC)
A few brief clips from the recent Indiana Comic Con:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbRMnCQF_es

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ReJzKmCBMM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfkvoFGkNiQ


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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (2nd May 16 at 9:36pm UTC)
I was getting a strange HTML5 error and the video was mostly green & red. Is that what the video actually looks like?

The content was okay. Good stuff, but he's been been saying this awhile.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (2nd May 16 at 11:25pm UTC)
The red and green is a weird 3D effect from youtube. That was a little annoying. If you watch from youtube, just can click on 2D to see it normal.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (2nd May 16 at 11:55pm UTC)
The videos are over before I can get it set to 2D and get the settings pop-up off the screen.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (8th May 16 at 6:49pm UTC)
New update!

http://jimshooter.com/

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I hope this is a sign of new things to come.

He mentioned the comment feature is working...

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (15th May 16 at 3:18pm UTC)
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (15th May 16 at 11:26pm UTC)
I'll be honest. That video bored me senseless. It's all stuff I've heard before except told slower with poor quality audio. Image
I'm no audiophile, but my dad worked in radio so I'm having flashbacks... lectures of everything wrong with the audio. Not even the details... just my dad's emotion and corrective tone whenever he heard poor sound quality.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (16th May 16 at 12:47am UTC)
Yea, i'd rather hear new news. Or even better, a weekly podcast talking up anything comics. Seems like the Secret Wars tour continues.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (20th May 16 at 3:41pm UTC)
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (20th May 16 at 6:09pm UTC)
That's a new perspective on the Phoenix character. It still rehashes the same topics as if Jim Shooter only did 10 things while working in comics, but at least the Phoenix portion was new.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (20th May 16 at 11:24pm UTC)
I'd love for an interviewer/fan to interview him on stuff about his other universe work instead of the obvious secret wars banners behind him. *sigh*

Like....Schism, Plasm....Broadway....stuff I wanna hear....

Post plans of aborted universes or anything potentially "in the works"....

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (21st May 16 at 2:25am UTC)
I liked seeing him write about Herb Trimpe and lesser known anchors from the industry.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th May 16 at 12:53am UTC)
Is Team America any good?
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th May 16 at 1:40am UTC)
 
Is Team America any good?


I assume you are talking about the comic book.
I didn't care for it at all.
I seem to remember it as over-stereotyped characters on a stunt motorcycle team. There was a mystery character that is reminiscent of Racer X in Speed Racer. He'd appear to save the day. No one knew who he was. I recall that the art was pretty good, but that may have just been on the later issues to boost sagging sales.

I haven't read any since they came out. My memory isn't as good as it used to be.

The unrelated movie is offensive, but I call it the funniest movie ever made.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (24th May 16 at 2:11am UTC)
Yeah, I was talking about the comic. I thought there may be a chance it was, though.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th May 16 at 12:42am UTC)
bwa-ha....:

"When you get photobombed by JimShooter"

https://www.facebook.com/george.vega.376258/posts/523714327833556

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th May 16 at 3:25am UTC)
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (29th May 16 at 1:27pm UTC)
Cool picture! I don't think that rises to he definition of photobombing though. Lol.
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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (30th May 16 at 12:23am UTC)
Here's an old interview with Ann Nocenti talking about Marvel in the 80s with some Shooter talk starts at the 16:00 minute mark....and more around the 34:minute mark...



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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (30th May 16 at 1:57am UTC)
That's the first I've heard of the must/can't story requirement.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (30th May 16 at 9:46pm UTC)
The cant/must was pretty interesting. Now i'm getting aware of where he used that as I re-read plasm again.

There was a bit in the video where she talks how the Marvel 80s bullpen had guns in the office and how smoking was allowed in there. "I'm writing a Punisher story, anyone got a gun for reference?" Smiley


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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (30th May 16 at 10:57pm UTC)
Jim believes in having reference material. I'll give him credit for that.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (1st Jun 16 at 3:26pm UTC)
https://vimeo.com/168870200

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (1st Jun 16 at 10:16pm UTC)
I knew this too. I am a Christian, so it should bother me a little. It doesn't. I'm not a fan of Mr. Isabella.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (2nd Jun 16 at 1:07am UTC)
I don't know anything about Isabella's work. Don't think I read an issue he wrote. I noticed Shooter posted a download on his blog for a GhostRider movie treatment script.

This video looks like part of a bigger interview coming soon.

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Re: The Jim Shooter Thread (2nd Jun 16 at 1:34am UTC)
I thought it said something about a DVD as it ended. I was doing something else and just listening for most of it.

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